Don’t need no man to party?
January 3, 2012 § 8 Comments
Most Swedes I introduce to kpop agree on one thing: kpop is, at many times, homoerotic. It’s also a common complaint in youtube comments on kpop boyband videos: “This is so gay!!!” they shout, just to be countered by “No my oppa isn’t gay! He said so in that interview! You’re just jealous that he’s sexier than you!” or something like that. But although I of course could go on about this forever (whether or not, fanservice, narrow definitions, cultural differences, blah blah), I’m going to put that aside for now to write a bit about something that isn’t as regularly discussed in the same context.
So. How lesbian is kpop?
Some time ago, I watched an interview with a couple of the girls from f(x). I don’t remember exactly which interview it was, but in any case, they got the question about why they have so many female fans. Krystal answered the question: “We have a member with a neutral charm like Amber-unni (so we have a lot of fangirls). But even though there’s one (with a neutral charm), I actually think that all five of us seems to have that neutral charm so a lot of girls likes us.”
This kind of got my head spinning.
Some background, in short (making things a bit too easy, of course): Female same-sex sexuality has for long been made invisible in most of the world, completely invisible or turned into something sexy for men or something unsexy for weirdos. From what I’ve come to understand, South Korea is no exception. Westerners frequently rise eyebrows at the relaxed attitude toward friendly same-sex closeness such as sleeping in the same bed and holding hands in public, obviously not seen with any suspicion in South Korea. Just as many other genderaware westerners, I envy this ease as well as wonder how much of it that is just because homosexuality, especially between women, is so far away it’s unthinkable.
But although Krystal is Korean, she has one foot in the US, and Amber was brought up in USA. There is no way they don’t know what’s going down with at least the international fandom’s interpretations of Amber’s boyish image. When SME decided to let Amber debut with f(x), what kind of fans did they expect her to attract? There seem to be a lot of discussion on whether or not Amber’s boyishness is just for show or not. Even though I personally believe SME has told her to play it up and wouldn’t let her leave it behind even if she felt like it, pre-debut pictures of her playing basketball and looking generally tomboy also make me think that they didn’t come up with the idea entirely for her. But seriously, what is f(x) even up to? I don’t get it, but they really do seem to have a lot of female fans, especially Amber. I watched Gayo Daejun and was moved by how the girls in the audience screamed at Amber.
T-ara obviously enjoy messing with my mind as well. I haven’t listened as much to Cry Cry as I did to either Roly Poly or Yayaya, but the concept for Cry Cry was to be really powerful on the verge of manliness, with DBSK as the explicit inspiration. Why? Because T-ara wanted to find their way back to their female fans. They actually said this.
About a week ago, T-ara were interviewed in Oricon Style. On the question what they wanted for Christmas, Eunjung answered “I want to meet someone by fate at Tokyo Tower… I don’t care whether that person is a male or not, I just want to meet someone amazing.
Is this all part of a calculated image on T-ara’s side, complete with Jiyeon’s lesbian role in “Miss Ripley? Is it genuine? Or just something else that I don’t understand
Exactly in what way girlgroups speak to their female fans when they display a “manly” image, I can’t really tell. Is it as rolemodels, or as objects of desire? Or a combination – so called girlcrushes, important during the teenage years but considered a passing phase?
I’m also puzzled at how some Korean (and international) female fans of female idols jokingly call them “oppa”. I can only interpret this as there lying something at least subtly desire-like in their fandom, or at least an awareness that it can be interpreted as this. But while for example After School’s Kahi and T-ara’s Eunjung don’t seem to mind, and even sometimes play with this concept, Miss A’s Jia lost her temper this summer and tweeted “Stop calling me oppa! /…/ I’m sexy girl~~~~ girl~~~~”.
I don’t even know where I’m going with this. This text has been lying around on my computer for quite some time without me finishing it, simply because I can’t really come a conclusion more than this: It seems like girl groups attract more girls, no matter why, when they show a cooler and more powerful image, and more guys when they show a cute image. I especially remember my own confusion when I talked to two guys about our favorite 2NE1 members, I mentioned CL and they were like “What? She’s so ugly though”. This hadn’t even occurred to me, who was way more interested in her fierce attitude. On the other hand, I know that I and the owner of this blog have come to the opposite conclusion when it comes to Orange Caramel – I like their cuteness, while he doesn’t.
What gender expectations, feelings of attraction or simply platonic admiration can be found in these patterns, I can just speculate in, and ponder on, and continue trying to understand. Maybe I’m just imagining things because I want to. I just hope they keep up the good work at giving me food for thoughts.
And now, I’m going to go camp at Tokyo Tower, hoping that Eunjung will show up…
/Mis, who is just as confused as always
I’m also confused! Thank you for this post.
/Lars
Kpop och homodiskussioner är alltid ett intressant ämne, dock synnerligen frustrerande. Bra skrivet! Det här med homosexualitet mellan kvinnor är ju egentligen alltid underställt, så även i västvärlden om ej lika mycket. Jag minns att jag läste en bok om historiska rättsprocesser och utomäktenskapliga förhållanden under 1600 och 1700-talen i Sverige. I domstolsprotokollen nämns homosexualitet som likställt sexuellt umgänge med djur och synnerligen straffbart. Men helt i förbigående nämns det även att kvinnor sovit utan kläder i samma säng, vilket flyter förbi helt utan kommentarer. Man kan ju vara glad att vi kommit lite längre nu (åtminstone i väst) men man känner ju igen tongångarna i alla fall, att helt enkelt inte låta det existera.
Tack för denna kloka kommentar. Och: Absolut! Jag funderade lite över hur mycket jag skulle gå in på detta i mer allmänna ordalag i det här inlägget, men beslöt mig för att ta det väldigt övergripande. Men visst är det så. Nu kommer jag inte ihåg vilken bok det var i, men när jag för ett par år sedan tog en kvällskurs i genus i historian läste jag om hur det ansågs helt ofarligt att pigor rumlade lite på egen hand förr, medan man var betydligt mer misstänksam mot killar som var alltför fysiskt nära. (En del av förklaringen till detta precis som till de hårda straffen för tidelag lär väl ligga i en bristande förståelse för hur barn egentligen blev till – att det hade något med instoppade penisar att göra stod klart, men riktigt var gränsen gick mellan vilka som kunde föda vilkas barn var väl inte alldeles tydligt. Kuriosa: I delar av Indien har man tydligen trott att sex mellan kvinnor kan alstra barn, men att dessa inte har något skelett!) På liknande sätt finns det ju idag en helt annan acceptans för t.ex. tjejkompisar som hånglar med varann eller rentav ger sig på att “experimentera” än killar som gör detsamma. Om detta sen beror på penetrationsfixering, att sex inte är riktigt sex utan ett manligt sexuellt subjekt eller vad, om det tvistar förstås de lärde.
Mina egna helt ovetenskapliga spekulationer här är att det tycks finnas en acceptans för flicksvärmerier, som går att spela på kommersiellt, så länge det går över och man gifter sig i slutändan. Men över huvud taget är det såklart problematiskt att använda sina västerländska queerglasögon för att titta på ej västerländska saker. Är dock för nyfiken för att låta bli och kan bara hoppas att de inte är alltför grumliga.
wow, I found your blog a couple of hours ago and I couldn’t stop myself from reading most of your last entries, I was sincerely glad to found someone who write about k-pop in the background you do. I’ve been listening to k-pop since I was 12 and sincerely since last year I’ve found myself vainly trying to stop my obsession with all Korean stuff, now I’m about to become 19 years old and I can’t help but feeling some kind of bitterness when I notice how k-pop has been degraded, maybe it’s mostly because usually I find younger and younger fans that could be taken by fans of American artists like those coming directly from Disney factory. It’s somehow irritating to see how popular it has become (I must be happy but I’m not) Just yesterday I went to bed with those thoughts in my mind and I promised myself I’d make my best to see k-pop more like simple music and not like a life style, then today while reading your entries I finally understood that I’m attached emotionally to k-pop and all the things I’ve done until now (starting with the fact that I crossed the ocean to come where I am now (Paris) and left my family to start my studies) have always been supported by my beloved k-pop. Thanks to your blog I believe again in people who see k-pop beyond the imagination and not as ‘simple music’. I’ll make sure now to come and read your blog regularly
May, thank you ever so much for your comment. It is nice to hear sometimes that you actually do something that have an impact somewhere. We want to somehow share our thoughts on Kpop, on how we understand, what we feel but also try to analyze why we do so. It turns the easiest main stream culture that we love into something abstract and difficult. We love abstract and difficult.
Hope to hear from you again!
/L
[...] before my computer broke down, I wrote this postabout lesbian subtext in kpop. And then yesterday, well… the video for Baby Soul +유지아 (Yoo [...]
I feel the same in regards to the confusing homosexual undertones sometimes portrayed in K Pop.
In regards to f(x)’s Amber, I’m struggling to understand why SME took her on. I thought that SME was creating sexualised, girly, ‘aegyo’ girl groups like SNSD to appeal to the ‘ajosshi’ market. Apparently sexualised girl groups are more profitable than boy groups because its easy to sell the ‘sex image’ to ajosshi. The less sexualised boy groups are relying on charisma and personality to sell. However, Amber’s presence in f(x) makes me question this formula. Amber doesn’t fit the mould of a girly, ‘aegyo’ girl. I can’t imagine SME thought she would help attract the more lucrative ajosshi fan base. SME doesn’t seem to be marketing her towards ajosshi fans anyway because she doesn’t wear revealing outfits much, even when the other girls of SNSD and f(x) do.
In a conservative society like Korea, I don’t think it would have been deliberate to have Amber appeal to lesbian inclined fans. I can’t imagine the marketing executives at SME having a roundtable discussion about how to include the marginalised lesbian members of society in their marketing strategy. I suspect you’re right that Amber was added to the group for shock value (although I wonder how long was SME expecting the ‘shock’ to last?). Alternatively, maybe it is a slightly misguided attempt to appeal to American/international fans, perhaps due to a perception the tomboy image is popular in America/other places outside Korea? While its true Amber has a lot of girl fans, it does seems Amber has more of these fans overseas than in Korea, where the more girly Sulli and Krystal seem to be more appealing. Amber may have also been added to f(x) for her ability to speak English and appeal to Chinese fans with her Taiwanese heritage, but Krystal and Victoria already could have done this, so I suspect this would have been a side consideration.
I am also a little doubtful that Amber’s boyish image is entirely her own choice. There are some pre debut pictures of Amber with short hair, but there are also some of her with longer hair and a ponytail. These K Pop companies are notorious for controlling every aspect of their idols’ lives, including the image they portray, and I would not be surprised if they have dressed up Amber boyishly without much regard for how Amber feels about it. I hope they allow Amber to grow her image and change it if she wishes, because at this point, the hysteria around Amber’s boyish image seems to be stopping us from seeing other aspects of Amber’s personality.
[...] is another group that has portrayed a more masculine image, as discussed in this article. Unlike with f(x), I think in T-ara’s case, it is a bit more clear that they’re targeting a [...]